Topic: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping (1/6) - Magic

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TOPIC: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping

1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9024

Justin Miller, Aaron Fisher and now Ellusionist have offered 1 on 1 sessions, Now I'm wondering if this hurts or helps magic, do you have to buy one of there products then ask for 1 on 1 training for it.

Ellusionist has a whole list of magicians that you can learn from at outrageous prices, they are all creators of some pretty awesome effects but the only two I see paying for are elite performers and respected by all in the magic community.

So far as I see it Justin Millers & Aaron Fishers prices seem to be the most reasonable and there teaching are not at all that bad.

I wanna know what you guys think, are these prices for training hurting or helping, as far as I see it some of these guys actually read from a book and are good because they practiced and had passion for what they did.

Are they preying on the kids that hope to be a Criss Angle ?

Andrew

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9025

Never had a one on one so i can't judge if its worth it but I think what thieves! They aren't that good them selves, they are just trying to make an easy dollar! Just pure laziness, I don't think it will do any good or bad all it will do is rob all the kids wanting to improve of every cent they have. There are many better and cheaper ways to learn, they would be better to give a password to everyone who purchases their products so they can go to a monthly online session with them and others wanting to learn. They think they are being kid to the young ones by having ways for them to learn, when all they are doing is sucking every little penny out of them, they need to learn things too, why not have a monthly or bi weekly jam session... its a win win situation. I may sound harsh but I am just not a fan of this at all.

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9026

I Must Concur With 'Mike'

Whilst 'Mentoring' is a brilliant thing... charging astronomical prices for it is rubbish..

I've been mentoring for quite a while.. i've had many students and some i still have to this date.. but i've never charged a pence for any 'Mentoring' and i never will.. i'll mentor anyone.. i'll give '1 on 1' sessions with whoever ask for them.. and i'll never charge a single pence

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9029

Agreed...I think it is just another way to make money. If they weren't in it for the money, they would charge less or charge nothing at all.

I understand if they charged nothing they would get a lot of people wanting the sessions, but they could have potential students apply for the sessions (by submitting an application and video of themselves) and that way they would only get the students that are most serious about learning.

The way it is now, they just get the students with the most money to pay for it, which isn't really fair to those that are serious but can't afford it.

I haven't had a one-on-one session, so I can't really comment on their value to the student, but I can't imagine the teacher can do much more to teach you over a video conference than you could get from reading a book or watching a DVD. Like, if your finger positioning is incorrect, they can tell you or show you, but they can't reach out across the computer screen and help you to position your fingers correctly.

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9031

Spot On 'V'.. and that is what i was pondering over.. an 'Application' one could submit.. even that is a bit tacky.. but still.. and again i must concur... how much 'Finesse' can you get over a 'Video' and that is the essential skill set that performers need..	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9036

Indeed it does sound a bit "tacky" to ask ppl to apply to lessons with you, but that way you know you are getting students who are really serious about learning. And after all, we have to apply to other "schools" for "higher education," so this is along the same lines.

And yes, what you say about "Finesse" is spot on...the whole point of getting a private lesson, in my mind, is to learn those things that cannot be taught over a video.

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9037

I'm on the fence, In a way it's good to learn from a pro as long as your learning there material.
But on the other hand the best times I have had with magic are sitting down reading a book getting frustrated with everything, taking a break and going back reading it for the thousandth time and working on it all night, that is what I really love about magic.

If you would like to have a look at some of the artist that are apart of this: www.ellusionist.com/insession

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9040

I agree as well. I certainly don't have anything against purchasing appropriate magic texts that were written for the purpose of advancing a student...but, there does seem to be a lot of money grabbing going on between magicians. If magicians really do want to promote and protect their art...then they have to be willing to pass on their knowledge as you are willing to do at this site. As V said...then children whose parents don't have the money to support their interest will be forced to turn away from magic.

Ruf, you are making this road ahead for me sound just dreadful lol

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9043

Indeed... learning from these 'Pros' is quite 'Subjective' sure the '14 Year Old's' will fancy it.. but what if they don't reflect 'Your Style' what if you are actually better then them? i'm a professional.. what really separates the lines? in fact to further on.. I'm more 'Underground' then any of these artist who call them selves 'Underground'	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9044

It's not dreadful at all, I grew up very poor and never got to buy magic from a shop until I got a job.
It made to seem that way but in our days ( without internet) we had to read books and search.
The road is not hard but when your willing to put the work in, you discover the passion for the art, when you can log on at anytime, pirate magic(not cool), 1 on 1 sessions and lets not mention youtube, no one respects it as much cause you don't take the time, when you can log on at anytime and get the information that you need there's no need for the passion.
If you could just walk outside and grab the first person you see and say " were in a relationship now, come with me". there would be no passion for that person, because it was too easy.

I think you'll have a wonderful journey with magic as I have and will continue to until I demise.

Andrew

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9048

I was much of the same 'Andrew' i could hardly afford a coin to practice coin magic much less 'Decks Of Cards'.. i was fortunate enough to have my 'Grandpa' who was a professional magician.. and a 'Real Mentalist' as well as a 'Circus Performer'

this new 'Generation' has much more 'Access' to magical instructions.. from 'Moving Pictures' and books.. '1 on 1' etc..

but it is the same for all aspects of life.. these kids are of the 'Instant Gratification' Era..

Dreadfully Sad Really...

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9063

LL - you will enjoy it...the thing is, when you are passionate about it, it won't feel dreadful, no matter how much work it is, because you are enjoying the work you are putting into it. I know you were just being sarcastic anyway and didn't really mean it would be "dreadful."

I had a look at that website Andrew - I was amazed at some of the names offering sessions. Many I did not expect, like David Regal and Daryl, for example.

I can see that their time is valuable, but I think they are charging way too much, as I have said before. I mean, between $100-$130 for an hour over a webcam. I could see maybe spending $100 at most for an hour session with some (not all) of those magicians in person, but over a webcam, I just don't see getting enough value out of it.

Seems to me like it is mainly a money-grab. And the way it is advertised, when you look at the ad copy, it is written that way too.

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9064

Indeed 'V'... dreadful thing is.. one can only imagine all the 'Kids' that will 'Pay' just to say they have had a lesson with 'X'	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9065

WOW, I too just took a look at the site and like V I am shocked to see half of them there! They do have some good and worthy performers who are actually good performers, whereas the others are more inventors then performers. I still think it is just a money sucking thing too because like V said, a webcam session is nothing like in person, also it shows that these guys don't really want to help young ones for the future of the art but for money instead... quite appalling really...

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9066

Spot On Mike.. would these same guys give the time of day to anyone if they didn't 'Pay'? if one were to meet at a convention.. would they be so apt to share knowledge then?.. whilst standing in a 'Queue' and meeting one.. would they session with you without the bank notes?	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9067

Exactly Liderc, Exactly, they may say the price is because of their time but like you say if they were at a convention or something of the sort and had the time... would they be so open... I doubt it...	KiwiMagician OFFLINE Demi-God Posts: 1439 Thank you received 17
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9068

I Doubt it as well.. these 'Professionals' believe that because they released 'Effects' that being 'Paid' is owed to them.. it's also the 'Peoples' fault that hold them on such high pedestals... that inflate their ego to the point of no return	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9071

Hey, Its been quite a while since I posted, been quite busy.

Nice topic Andrew & great convo so far...

Its quite astonishing to see some great names on that list. I'd love to talk to people like Daniel Madison and Wayne Houchin, but the fact they are overcharging and robbing kids disgusts me.

I wonder what great would they teach someone over a video chat. For that price, we could buy a lot of DVD's with a greater content value and would run more than an hour. What could a person teach in that 1 hour that would be worth so much money.

The problem does lie in the people. I can't stand kids who won't give up sucking up to 'famed creators' and splurging money on worthless stuff. These magicians are nothing but marketing gimmicks meant to rob little children.

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9072

Now that I come to think about it, I've learned things far superior to anything a "famed creator" would teach me right here on TMN!

I've had sessions with Liderc and V and Andrew and so many good magicians. And for free too... And I've learned things none of those people would teach me in even 5 hours...

I think it would've been better had they spared just one hour and given a quality online lecture to people who really do want to learn.

It disgusts me to see how much learned people stoop just for a quick buck...

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9078

If they looked at you could buy all three volumes of Paul Harris Art of astonishment and have enough magic for a life time, but that's where the kicker is Pauls stuff is good but you have to put in work to see the results.
I agree on some of the magicians they have, learning from Michael Ammar would be way cool but I think I'd be way more interested in the story's he would have about the professor.

Like these web sites that promised in depth, to make you a better performer/magician the novelty will die out when they realize that there not getting any better, just getting more broke.

The hurt in magic is money, yes magic is very expensive but there are alternatives to buy one dvd of the next big effect.

By a book full of sleight's, and create something for yourself. All these pro's were the same way they didn't have money to buy effect so they created them? The answer is right there...

Andrew

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9086

I agree with most of the things that have been said. Now to add a different perspective.

Think about this from the 'Professionals' side. you get asked to participate in a fairly new idea, lessons over the internet. You'll get to work with students all over the world, that appreciate your work.

So it's not really the magicians that are at fault.

I can see the appeal from that side. And the other side..

Learn from your favorite magician.

I remember being 14, that would be a dream come true!

It is expensive, very expensive. I've meet a few of the 'Professionals', some would teach you if you asked them, e.g. at a convention. Others wouldn't.

I also think, this may be the end of books on magic. If you can get someone to teach to on a DVD or via the internet. I can't see many people taking the time to read a book. Shame for later generations of magic.

To some up, people are lazy.

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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9093

Indeed Andrew... but if it was for the 'Good Of Instruction' kids from around the world... they wouldn't charge as much as they do.. if they approached me i would say i'll do it for free... if they said i 'HAD' to charge i would put it at the least amount possible.. they have choices.. and they always take the one that leads to more money	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9100

V - Nice to see our minds are connected enough to communicate without communication lol...amusing to speak with such intelligence ...and scary.	Latte Lover OFFLINE Journeyman Posts: 175 Thank you received 7
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9101

I'm of the impression that you happened to get the wrong topic perhaps?	Liderc OFFLINE God Posts: 2944 Thank you received 88
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Re: 1 on 1 sessions Hurting or helping 2 years 4 months ago #9103

Its the right topic... LL was referring to post #9063 I made on page 1 of this topic.	V Marra OFFLINE Administrator Posts: 1893 Thank you received 58
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